I met Sophia Cosmadopoulos around the time Pure Vision Arts collaborated with Ace Hotel on an exhibition. Over the next few years we worked on a couple of projects together and while it's hard to pick a favorite, LAND of Metal at St. Vitus in Greenpoint was pretty great. Ace also brought Sophia on to interview artists for their blog.Recently, Sophia linked up with her longtime friend and curatorial partner Anna Schechter to form Summertime Gallery in Williamsburg, Brooklyn. Together the pair has curated, executed or facilitated over 50 exhibitions and with the new space, they’re seeking to address the marginalization and segregation of artists with intellectual disabilities and mental health conditions. Newly opened (2019), Summertime just launched a Kickstarter campaign to help grow their programs. Despite the COVID-19 lockdown, they’ve got a plan. Please make a donation.Ben: How are you doing? You mentioned being at your partner's place because a roommate was diagnosed with COVID-19?
Sophia: He wasn't diagnosed, but he self diagnosed. We were in Costa Rica and got back right as the borders closed. My roommate told me that he had a fever, a cough and all of the symptoms so we decided to stay at my girlfriend's house in Queens. I've been here ever since.
Ben: This is a newer relationship, right? Okay to ask?
Sophia: Yeah. We’re really getting to know each other well! We've been together six months, so this is definitely a wild ride. But honestly, I think that we're both managing it really well, or as well as we can.
Ben: And you're both feeling healthy?
Sophia: Yeah. I've lived in New York for a long time and have a large group of friends that live in the city; a lot of them have had pretty mild symptoms, I haven't had any symptoms, I felt healthy. I was worried about the plane, but it’s been 14 days since we got back and we're both feeling good.
“It was full throttle from the moment you got there to the moment you left. Bussing, petty cash, answering emails…helping somebody microwave meatballs.”
Ben: Elizabeth and I have been saying that with our kid starting daycare last September, we’ve basically...we were sick from like October to February anyhow, so it’s hard to tell if any of it was COVID-19 related. You mentioned you've been in New York for many years, but I want to start further back. You’re not from the U.S. originally, right? Who was teenage Sophia?
Sophia: Oh, you don't want to know. I'm half Greek, half British. I was born in England and grew up in London until I was seven and then moved to San Francisco. I went to an International Baccalaureate high school. I feel like I really found myself when I went to Oberlin for college. I was in a really academically rigorous high school that wasn't very creative. I took higher level art, but it wasn't quite the right fit for me. But when I got to Oberlin, it was really this huge eye opener for me and led me to be a creative thinker. Oberlin just blew my brain apart; it was an amazing experience for me.
Ben: Why was San Francisco the spot you landed?
Sophia: Well my parents were super young when they had me. They had me in college. My mom was a teacher, my dad was in tech and they were living in London during the Thatcher years and had no money. My dad was offered a job in San Francisco in the tech community.
Ben: At Oberlin you majored in art history. Why art history? A lot of art historians also do curatorial work so like, were you getting involved in exhibitions early on?
Work by artist Raquel Albarran from LAND Gallery, a favorite of Sophia’s. Image provided by Sophia Cosmadopoulos.
Sophia: In high school I was much more interested in practicing art and then when I got to college. I felt intimidated by the culture at Oberlin. It’s with music in particular, but also in visual arts. I landed in art history because I felt like I wanted a baseline of knowledge, but I always felt I wasn't learning the history that I wanted to learn. There were big swaths of art history omitted from our courses. You know, none of my textbooks talked about female artists or rarely mentioned artists of color. I came from San Francisco, you know, it's a pretty affluent community but my whole childhood, I've always taken part in social services and did voluntary things. Like the AIDS quilt and the Haight Ashbury Free Medical Center. I think that’s a big part of why I decided to volunteer at a place like Creativity Explored, I wanted to experience a different side of art.
Ben: Creativity Explored is a very specific and historically important program. How did you become aware of them? Was it just through living in SF and, I’m a bit confused on the timeline, you volunteered there while at Oberlin?
“Oftentimes people will generalize what it means to have a disability. There are layers of identity…”
Sophia: My stepmother, Jennifer, is a drama therapist and she has worked with lots of different populations. She worked in juvenile hall centers, jails and psych wards. I grew up being an audience member of those performances and hearing about her work at the dinner table. She was the one that introduced me to Creativity Explored. I went for a visit and then applied to a thing called Winter Term which is studying something in depth or experiencing something in depth. So that was my first Winter Term project. I really fell in love with that world.
Ben: The program at Creativity Explored, what’s your take on it...like a bird's eye view?
Sophia: So Creativity Explored is part of a trifecta of art studios in California supporting artists with intellectual disabilities. The first of its kind was Creative Growth. They started up in the ‘70s and provided art supplies, a place to make work, mentorship, and opportunities to display and sell work, Creativity Explored has two different locations, but I worked in the one in the Mission.
Ben: You used the phrase “intellectual disabilities”. We've discussed this in the past...alternate phrases that may be more progressive or that help avoid an unintentional “othering”. At present, what are the standard terms for artists working at these facilities, if there is one? And something I've never asked you before, the artists that you have worked with, do they have any opinions as to how they want to be written about or described?
Sophia: This is obviously a complicated subject and I think it's changing all the time. When I first started working in this field, people were using the terminology “developmental disability”, but now people generally say “intellectual disability.” I think it makes sense to use those terms with people who are not familiar with the disability community and who often confuse intellectual disability with mental illness. It's a whole different ball game within the community, and it really depends on the person. For some artists, it’s an important component of their identity. There are other people that don't consider themselves disabled in any way.
When I was at LAND, we had many discussions about it. It used to be that Michael Pellew [one of the studio artists], anytime someone walked in Michael would say a speech that basically went “Welcome to LAND. We support artists with intellectual disabilities.” But a lot of artists spoke up and said that they didn't want to be described that way.
Now that I run my own space, we want to put a lot of that decision making in the hands of the artists. This is where it becomes really tricky as a curator, as somebody that leads a program...making decisions both for and with other people. So we're trying more and more to have that voice come from the artists. I hope that one day we won't have to use that terminology at all. But unfortunately, when we're talking to the general public, there is still such a lack of understanding. I feel like it's because artists with intellectual disabilities have been left out of discourse for so long, that we have to use that terminology.
Work by Susan Brown of Pure Vision Arts. Image provided by Sophia Cosmadopoulos.
Ben: This is why I think Summertime is so interesting, you're not starting from a place of only showing work by artists with intellectual disabilities. It seems you're just showing their work. alongside artists either without intellectual disabilities or whose status is unknown. It feels more about an aesthetic quality than the state of the artists’ minds or bodies, even though there is a bit of a focus there.
Sophia: Yeah, for sure. We're focusing on consistent visual themes. Anna and I have both worked in these kinds of programs for a long time and are big admirers of the models that were created back in the 70s but we are aware that...they were created in the 70s. In many ways they need updating. We're excited about creating a space where we can build off of those models, but try to innovate and make them a little bit more progressive or consistent with the time. Our goal with Summertime is to help facilitate an artist community that's just more neurodiverse rather than pigeonholing artists into the “outsider” category.
“Our landlord is an old school Italian from the neighborhood. He was so kind and told us right off the bat that we were family, and that Williamsburg and greater New York needs programs like this.”
Ben: We've also talked about this many times, but the “outsider” label is kinda b-s. Anytime I've gone to the Outsider Art Fair— whom I’ve worked with and really do enjoy attending —I see all these artists with gallery representation, selling work for hella money. I mean, it’s a legit art fair. The ‘outsider’ label feels a tad disingenuous. Or easy. Or boring. Okay. Vent over. You've been in these fields for a while, so let’s go back a bit. After you interned at Creativity Explored, where was the next move?
Sophia: When I moved to New York, I ended up at a place called HAI which was an art studio in SoHo specifically designed to support artists with mental health conditions. An amazing program, and some really incredible artists came out of that program. They shut down a few years ago due to a really terrible scandal. But anyway, from there I went to AHRC which is another large non profit program with facilities all over the city. I was teaching art to various different groups there including people that had traumatic brain injuries, and also other intellectual disabilities. Then I was a volunteer at Pure Vision Arts and was hired there as a studio coordinator. Then I worked at LAND, at first as a coordinator. And then as the Gallery Manager.
Ben: Oh I thought you were at YAI Arts somewhere in there, too?
Sophia: Yeah. Yeah. I taught in their Tuesday evening classes while I was at LAND.
The interior of Summertime Gallery in Williamsburg, Brooklyn. Image provided by Summertime Gallery.
Ben: To what extent were you involved with the production of events through all these programs? Be it like studio visits or gallery shows? I know some of the artists participated in bigger exhibitions, had collaborated with the likes of J Crew, MoMA, and Opening Ceremony...
Sophia: So when I came to LAND, they had already had those partnerships with J Crew and Opening Ceremony. I feel in my time there, due to the staff and maybe just the right moment in history, LAND really became this kind of force when it came to progressive art studios around the country, Mostly due to the talent of the artists. But also a big part of that is due to Matt who started the program, he’s an amazing and inspirational person. We just had a really great team. I think I had a big hand in the projects. I was able to upgrade myself to Gallery Manager after a year or two. Because it’s part of a larger organization we kind of got to fly a little bit under the radar and got to make a lot of decisions ourselves. We did projects with Blu Dot the Whitney Museum and Instagram, it was a really exciting time.
Ben: You sort of answered my question hah. Well, what does it mean, day to day, to be a gallery manager for a program like that?
“One of their journalists interviewed one of our artists and his write up basically claimed he was putting on airs. That he was just trying to seem “wacky.”
Sophia: You wear a thousand hats; everybody did everything. We also operated in a tiny 1,500 square foot room. It was full throttle from the moment you got there to the moment you left. Bussing, petty cash, answering emails, helping somebody tie their shoe, helping somebody microwave meatballs. It was just, you know, everything happening all at once. Sometimes that was exhausting, but most of the time it was inspiring. It didn't feel like there were power dynamics or a hierarchy. I was doing a lot of the archiving of work, coordinating with curators or gallerists or framers. A lot of the artists are so prolific, some could create 20 drawings in a day, and just making sure that the work is shown and archived was a lot of it.
Ben: So at some point, you linked up with Anna who you now do Summertime with. How’d that happen?
Sophia: Anna and I have been collaborating for a long time. Years ago we did a show at this space called Weird Days, which was her brother's production-company-slash-work space in Williamsburg and is now Summertime’s space. So we worked on this project together, and at the time I was already feeling some of the frustrations of just working in larger nonprofits, especially one that's funded by Medicaid. I pulled her aside and asked her if she wanted to open a studio together. I barely knew her. This was after like, a month. Ever since, we have met once a week, talking about this idea. It wasn't until about May of last year when we made it a reality. While programs like LAND and Pure Vision are very lucky to have consistent government funding, staff’s time is tied up in bureaucracy. We really dreamed of being able to put energy into things that would be more directly beneficial to the artist. We wanted to apply for NADA or Frieze, fund residency programs... I just thought “I gotta do this. I gotta do this on my own.”
Ben: How many events has Summertime held since it opened up?
Sophia speaking with Mary T Bevlock at CCW. Image provided by Sophia Cosmadopoulos.
Sophia: We had our inaugural show in August of last year. We rented Institute 193 in the East village for a month. Then we had our second show in December at our new space. That was called Footnote. We were planning our third for April, which is now postponed because of the pandemic. We're also trying to start introducing the studio program, and other new ideas but again, they are all on hold.
Ben: So Summertime is pretty new. What's the situation with funding, if I can ask. How do you start a gallery when a health crisis has you closed? What’s the landlord's situation?
Sophia: When we realized the severity of this crisis, we very much considered halting. We’re in the middle of our first Kickstarter campaign and it was just gaining momentum. We both feel the priority is that people live through this pandemic, lives are on the line as well as people's jobs. It’s quite a challenging time to ask people for money. But although Summertime is in its infancy the idea is already bigger than us, and we're not being paid. I'm volunteering my time. We’re raising money for future programs that benefit artists who are underserved in regular circumstances.
A lot of these programs are going to be in jeopardy. Programs like this one really need to exist for the artists. So with that outlook we feel reinvigorated to work harder to make it happen. Our landlord is an old school Italian from the neighborhood. He was so kind and told us right off the bat that we were family, and that Williamsburg and greater New York needs programs like this, He wants us to survive and we’re figuring it all out. It really made me feel hopeful. It's been emotionally challenging, but we're rising to the occasion.
Ben: I'm so glad that the landlord was chill. Other landlords out there please take a lesson from this guy!
Sophia: Oh my God. He was so amazing. That's how we're all gonna whether this, on a human level.
Ben: Every creative community has its own sort of unique challenges right? In your community you’re working with artists who are verbal, some nonverbal, and in both cases like...I won't name names, but you the artists who have inflated egos. What do you think’s the biggest challenge?
Sophia: For us it isn’t the artists. Or like you said every scene has its difficult and easy going artists. For us, the press has been a real challenge. Like we were talking about before, it’s about terminology and how artists want to be described. That confusion comes from people not interacting with people with intellectual disabilities on a day to day basis. Oftentimes people will generalize what it means to have a disability. There are layers of identity and when you start trying to label them as outsiders or as the Art Brut...it doesn't really consider the nuances of each artist and their work.
All the artists we're working with are super contemporary responding to the culture of today. They are not folk artists. I remember one time we got a review while at the Outsider Art Fair from an art journal. One of their journalists interviewed one of our artists and his write up basically claimed he was putting on airs. That he was just trying to seem “wacky.”
Local artists visiting Summertime Gallery for a drawing workshop.
Ben: That’s [bleep]ing [bleep]. Did they ever apologize for that?
Sophia: You know, at the time we didn't respond because we were just flabbergasted by the whole thing.
Ben: Have you been in touch with other studios? Do you have a sense of how the artists are coping with social isolation?
Sophia: I feel for the artists, some of them have been attending their programs for 5, 10...15 years, five days a week. Then all of a sudden they're forced to stay at home. That's very disruptive for people, it can be a big emotional challenge for some of these guys. For the organizations that work with people with intellectual disabilities, it's been extremely challenging. Communicating with people that are nonverbal or who have limited access to the internet is a real challenge even under normal circumstances. The residents are super overwhelmed and staff are having a really hard time.
I attended a summit organized by Creative Growth last October, it was a really amazing resource for different studios around the country to discuss their shared experiences. It was maybe the first time people in the field really began working together rather than in competition. One friend was hand-delivering supplies to artists at home. Just making sure that artists are continuing to be engaged and don't feel like they're left alone. Creative Growth is doing a coloring book where artists can download work from that.
Ben: Hopefully this normalizes sooner than later. When that happens, what is the first exhibition Summertime will have going up?
Sophia: I think our first exhibition will be in collaboration with an outside curator, Lisa Slominski, who used to work at the Museum of Everything. She's putting together a show of artists from England and the U.S. titled Fair Vanity. So I'm excited for that. But really we're hoping to open our doors to have days of studio programming for the artists to come, create, and share. I’m optimistic.